In a new interview with Tom Cridland of the Greatest Music Of All Time podcast, KISS bassist/vocalist Gene Simmons was asked why he thinks rock music is no longer as “fashionable” as it once was. He responded in part (as transcribed by BLABBERMOUTH.NET): “It’s the business and who the fans are. The people that buy rock are predominately white. Although it’s still vibrant in stadiums across the world — [IRON] MAIDEN does very well live and METALLICA and so on, but these are old, old bands. We took IRON MAIDEN on their first tour. We took BON JOVI on their first tour. We took AC/DC on their first tour.”You can’t find a new big rock band,” he continued. “They don’t exist. Name one, if you can think. FOO FIGHTERS, it’s a big band, and that’s 30 years ago. And that has to do with the fans, who’s buying it. So once you could get that music for free, the business model stopped working.”Asked why he thinks that favored pop and rap as opposed to rock music, Gene said: “Because younger pop fans, predominantly — there are so many great pop singers; Ariana Grande is really fabulous — she can imitate anybody, a great artist. And there’s Dua Lipa, and there’s a lot of them. But the fanbase are young females. So a lot of it has to do with souvenirs. I don’t wanna come off like Professor Of Rock, Professor Of Music, but if you study it, there are reasons why things are happening. If you like that music, ‘Oh, I kind of like that,’ and then they’re different business models. So you can actually sell some units if you’re a rap band, because it’s culture. Rap is culture, not just music. In fact, it’s more culture, often racial culture, because it talks about ‘us’ — ‘us against them’ or ‘the world against us’. And when culture gets into it, like a football team — football or soccer or whatever you wanna call it is not as much a sport as it is flying the colors of ‘my team.’ In fact, you’re willing to beat the crap out of somebody who roots for the other team.”Gene added: “It is in your favor if you have a fanbase that feels like they’re connected and they have the flag, like in soccer. That is tribalism. It doesn’t have to be mean-spirited. It’s an identity. ‘Swiftie’ [movement consisting of fans of American singer-songwriter Taylor Swift] is a culture. They’re not just fans. She stands for something. When you think about it, above and beyond the music and the lyrics and so on — ‘This guy broke my heart’ — and these songs that Swifties love, above that is her as the Jesus of the movement, if you see what I mean. I mean, what’s Christianity as a movement, religion, without Jesus, right? So you need these leaders, these apostles at the top to encapsulate what the culture and that thing is about. So the thing that Taylor has is Swifties…”Simmons went on to say: “[Lady] Gaga, I think, is more talented than all the others because her songs and her are, ‘I was born this way.’ And so the music is not just — and I don’t mean ‘fluff’ in a bad way, because there’s some wonderful fluff stuff. A lot of the British Invasion was all these great songs that you sang meant nothing. But when a song is saying [singing] ‘you want a revolution’, the song is about something. And so if you have a body of work that’s about something, you get the beginnings of tribalism. And if you’re the embodiment of that tribe, now you’ve got something. Yes, Gaga’s fanbase is about that. And of course, she’s widened her thing by doing pop, Tony Bennett, and all this stuff. She’s the real deal. She’s got the musical chops. She can play, sing; [she is a] chanteuse.”While rock ‘n’ roll has been king of the music world for decades, in the past few years, it’s been unseated by the growing popularity of hip-hop. This has caused many pundits to proclaim the genre “dead” from an industry perspective, noting that it has been eclipsed in all measures by pop, hip-hop, and EDM.Simmons previously spoke about rock’s supposed diminishing status during a December 2024 appearance on The Zak Kuhn Show. Asked if rock and roll is “still dead”, Simmons replied: “It is. And people don’t understand how I can say that when we all have our favorite songs and we love our favorite bands — you and I and everybody else. But what I mean is that… Well, let’s play a game, and I’ve done this before. From 1958 until 1988, that’s 30 years. 30 years. So what came during that period? Well, we had Elvis [Presley], we had THE BEATLES, THE [ROLLING] STONES, Jimi Hendrix, all that, PINK FLOYD, the solo artists, David Bowie and just music that lasts forever, we’d like to think. In the disco world, you had Madonna, more heavy guitars, you had — Oh God — AC/DC and everybody else, AEROSMITH and on and on. And you had Motown at the same time. You had Prince. It was a very, very rich musical menu. It could go up and down. You had prog bands, you had YES, GENESIS, GENTLE GIANT, and you had the heavy bands, LED ZEPPELIN and so on. And from 1988 until today, it’s something like almost 40 years, certainly 35 years. Who are the new BEATLES?”When host Zak Kuhn mentioned NIRVANA, Gene said: “Stop. We are blinded. I’m a major fan. If you walked down the street and asked a 20-year-old, ‘Who’s the bass player in NIRVANA?’, they wouldn’t know what you’re talking about. Or, ‘Can you sing a NIRVANA song?’ No, no. THE BEATLES and, to slightly lesser extent, THE STONES and Elvis, everybody knew THE BEATLES. If you hated rock music, you knew about them. By the way, I’m delusional enough to believe some market reports about how the KISS faces are the most recognized faces on the planet. And I’ve tried this before. You walk down the street, randomly ask people, ‘Who’s on Mount Rushmore?’ They’ll say, ‘Uh, Elvis.’ They won’t get it, but they know those four faces anywhere you go. They may hate the band, but you can’t deny that. So NIRVANA, one of my favorite bands. If you ask somebody who’s 20 or something, there’s a generation gap, ‘Name a song,’ they wouldn’t be able to tell you. ‘Who’s the bass player?’ No idea. And by the way, I know that because one of the other samples is my son, who’s no longer that age when he was a little bit over 20. He saw a cute girl — he’s telling me the story — he saw a cute girl, so he’s trying to open up the conversation, and she’s wearing a ROLLING STONES t-shirt that’s got the tongue on it, and on top of the t-shirt it actually says, ‘THE ROLLING STONES.’ And he walks up, and his first line is, ‘Oh, so you’re a fan, huh?’ And she says something like, ‘Yeah. Of what?’ And Nick, my son, says, ‘You know, THE STONES.’ She goes, ‘THE STONES?’ He goes, ‘Yeah, THE ROLLING STONES.’ She goes, ‘THE ROLLING STONES? What’s that? A band?’ Nick says, ‘Are you kidding? You’re wearing their t-shirt.’ And he was telling me she looked down — upside down, I guess, because it’s facing [him] — and she goes, ‘Oh, oh, I just like the shirt. I just like the t-shirt. And Nick said, ‘You must know THE ROLLING STONES. You know ‘Satisfaction’.’ [hums riff] ‘Nope. Never heard it.’ He went through a few other songs. Never heard those songs. And he said, ‘You’ve never heard of Mick Jagger?’ And she said, ‘Mick Jagger? Oh yeah, yeah. I heard…’ What I’m about to tell you, my hand to God, is true. No exaggeration. She goes, ‘Mick Jagger. Oh, yeah, the serial killer.’ Anything you think is commonplace that the masses know, they don’t. Very few things everybody knows.After Simmons asked Kuhn to name two other bands that could be the new BEATLES, Zak brought up PEARL JAM and FOO FIGHTERS, prompting Gene to say: “Not on your life. Of course, I love FOO FIGHTERS. I love those bands. Mike McCready told me he was growing up with those KISS records. In fact, one of his solos … he took note for note from Ace Frehley. But that’s not my point. My point is if you randomly walk down the street and you ask the first young person you meet, a 20-year-old, and you say, ‘Name me anybody in PEARL JAM,’ good luck with that. ‘Name me or tell me a song. Hum a song.’ They [can’t].”You and I are blinded because we’re very close to it,” Simmons continued. “So here’s something the rest of the world knows, but we don’t. Who’s the prime minister of England? Tell me who the prime minister of France is. Tell me who the prime minister of Canada is. And by the way, next to PEARL JAM and NIRVANA, strangely, Dave Grohl has become far more popular. They may know Dave because he’s done TV commercials and sort of rubbed shoulders with people outside of guitars and concerts. That’s how you get to be iconic. So if I say Snoop Dogg, everybody knows who that is, but if you mention other rappers who might actually be bigger rap stars — M.C. Criminal or whatever; I just made that up — the masses wouldn’t have any idea. It’s because Snoop plays in media — he had a TV show with Martha Stewart, and that kind of thing. So the masses have no idea who’s in PHISH, one of my favorite bands, or PEARL JAM. They wouldn’t have a clue, unless you’re a fan.”Circling back to his belief that everybody knows the KISS characters even if they don’t necessarily love the band’s music, Gene said: “Not everybody loves Jesus either. That’s not the point. Fame itself is the ultimate reward. Everybody’s not gonna like you, but they know you. We have a photographer who’s been with us for — I don’t know — 40 or 50 years, and he’s done everybody — THE STONES and ZEPPELIN, everybody. And he’s a real music aficionado. He collects posters and stuff. He hates THE BEATLES, always has — can’t stand listening to them — but he knows who they are: John, Paul, George, Ringo. You know who Jesus is. Not everybody likes him. Even the people that hate the idea of it, they’ve heard of the name and they know who he is. Fame is the ultimate reward.”The “rock is dead” argument has popped up again and again throughout the years, including in 2018 after MAROON 5 lead singer Adam Levine told Variety magazine that “rock music is nowhere, really. I don’t know where it is,” he said. “If it’s around, no one’s invited me to the party. All of the innovation and the incredible things happening in music are in hip-hop. It’s better than everything else. Hip-hop is weird and avant-garde and flawed and real, and that’s why people love it.”More than a decade ago, Simmons told Esquire magazine that “rock did not die of old age. It was murdered. Some brilliance, somewhere, was going to be expressed and now it won’t because it’s that much harder to earn a living playing and writing songs. No one will pay you to do it.”A number of hard rock and heavy metal musicians have weighed in on the topic in a variety of interviews over the last several years, with some digging a little deeper into Simmons’s full remarks and others just glossing over the headline.[embedded content]